Hello all,
I've limited the scope of this post to Maudlin's
conception of Newtonian substantivalism and how it copes with the static and
kinetic spatiotemporal shift arguments. I had difficulty grasping the content
of sct. 4, and as such I think it would be more productive to focus on sct. 3,
which is relatively straight forward but yields some interesting questions and
responses. I'm not entirely sure of the best way to structure this, so I will
briefly summarise the text, highlighting any questions or concerns that
occurred to me.
Maudlin offers a view on the classical debate of
which holds that the key issue under consideration, the fact that Newtonian
absolute space has a "metaphysically distasteful" character of
ontologically distinct but empirically identical circumstances, is brought
about by a fundamental misunderstanding and subsequent misuse of the arguments.
He claims that the weight of Leibniz' spatiotemporal shift arguments is down to
a fallacious equivocation, and that upon investigation into their structures,
one finds that they are essentially different, and therefore cannot be
legitimately appealed to.
The arguments in brief: In a substantivalist
universe, where spatiotemporal properties of objects are defined absolutely in
relation with absolute space, and defined locally in relation with one another,
a static shift in time and/or space would essentially be unnoticeable, since
every observation made before and after the shift would be identical.
Similarly, a kinematic shift, in which the universe in its entirety would
undergo motion with repeat to absolute space, would also be unnoticeable for
the same reason. If the relations between bodies would not change, the
observations made within such a shifted universe would still hold as they had
before, and therefore the two universe pre-and-post-shift would be
indiscernible from one another. Following the Principle of the Identity of
Indescernibles, the two universes would be identical. "In short, both the
static and kinematic shifts (...) would result in ontologically distinct but observationally
indistinguishable states of affairs."
Maudlin goes on to expose the failure of the argument, which rests in an
“illusions engendered by imprecision concerning the notion of observationally
indistinguishable states of affairs.” The key here is that what is
observationally indistinguishable in the case of the kinematic shift is not
necessarily so in the case of the static shift. Essentially, within Newtonian
space-time, observation is possible if there is a change in spatiotemporal
property with respect to anything other than absolute space, so if two shifted
universe states differ only with respect to absolute space, the difference will
not be observable, and therefore the states will be observationally
indistinguishable. What this seems to come down to is that in the case of a
kinematic shift, we can say that we part of the actual world, but there are
certain aspects of it that are unknowable.
Similarly, in the case of the static shift, there will be no way to
observe certain spatiotemporal properties that would help us identify which
state of affairs we are part of. Maudlin then poses the following question: if
the entire universe were to shift statically in space or time, what could we
say about the actual state of the universe? In the kinematic case, he says,
physical questions about the actual nature of the universe can be asked but not
necessarily answered, whereas in the static case they cannot even be asked in
the first place without indexically picking out a spatiotemporal location, and
identifying the occupant of that location is a physical question that can be
answered.
Maudlin provides an example for this which amounts to the claim that it
knowledge of the spatiotemporal locations of things is presupposed in referring
to them. Were the universe shifted statically 15 billion years into the future,
he says, it is possible that someone just like him would be sitting in the same
place writing the same words, however the indexicals used in his writing would
ensure that the referents of his utterances would not be the same. In that
sense, it is an error on the part of Leibniz to assume that a static shift
would be undetectable; not because it could be observed, but because the
observer would no longer be around to observe it.
I agree with this to some degree in the case of a temporal shift, but I
am not convinced the same applies in the spatial shift. It is possible that the
entire universe from my point of view could shift spatially billions of
lightyears to the left, but if the relative distances and positions between the
occupants of the universe do not change, that is, were their positions to
change only with respect to “absolute” space, then the spatial location
contained in the meaning of my utterances of “here” or “there” would also have
to change, and there would be no observation possible that would make me aware
of that. In other words, it is true that “here” means two different things
pre-and-post-shift, but it seems dubious that my knowledge of that should track
the shift, as it were. In Maudlin’s words, “We can (…) formulate meaningful
counterfactuals about worlds where everything would be displaced from its
actual location, but we can also be assured that they are counterfactuals.”
Where does this assurance come from? It seems to me that taking spatiotemporal
properties as counterfactuals presupposes that the actual state can be
discerned through observation, which is precisely what remains to be shown.
Where Maudlin loses me is in his conception of what a static shift would
be like, so to close this post I would like to examine the ways in which this
is conceivable. The point of the static shift argument is to show that in
absolute space, a spatiotemporal change of position of the entirety of the
universe, that is, everything that exists within it, with respect to absolute
space, would be unnoticeable, and that therefore a view of space-time which
holds on to absolute space but admit the possibility of an infinity of possible
universes. But if we ignore PII (which, as Maudlin notes, is no longer taken
seriously), it seems that this is not a problematic consequence.
Thanks Luc! I like how you express the arguments! I'm still getting to grips with this topic myself, but what gets me is the fact that this all boils down to whether or not indexical features are to be taken as spatiotemporal referents in their own right - as I understand it, in principle Maudlin can avoid Leibniz's argument thus: my indexical utterance "here," at some specified position, picks out a reference point which will be distinct from any other indexical utterances of "here" expressed when I am in different positions. Hence PII fails. Yet in practice, rather than principle, how can we explain what our indexical utterances are referring to? I can appeal to coordinates, maps, gps, but if space is absolute I have no idea how to set an objective reference point for my current position. I believe this is what you mean when you say "in other words, it is true that “here” means two different things pre-and-post-shift, but it seems dubious that my knowledge of that should track the shift, as it were". Perhaps I'm wrong, but if I understand you correctly then I agree that there aren't solid grounds for Maudlin's counterfactual "assurance."
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHi all and thank you Luc. I think what Maudlin means is that it is indeed possible to distinguish statically shifted situations from the factual one we experience, by using indexicals like "here" and "now" or definite descriptions. We don't need actual absolute coordinates, which we indeed don't have, nor do we need to know which locations the indexicals actually refer to, since the mere use of them suffices to ensure that our situation is different from a shifted world. The scenarios therfore don't violate PII.
ReplyDeleteYour example is a bit different. The statical shift is not a movement to another position, this would be an accelerated motion, which we would notice. It is rather a different placement from the beginning. Of course, if everything was somewhere else, then "here" would refer to another place. But, so Maudlin argues, to even describe this, we must say "somewhere else (from here)", which by the use of indexicals already marks the scenario as counterfactual.
It is strange, though, that Maudlin's idea of PII seems to be: Two things are one and the same, if they are empirically undistinguishable. His argument rests on a logical difference rather than on an observable one. It still seems that if the world was statically shifted, we would not empirically notice. We can just distinguish this scenario logically from the fatual world. Dainton's PII (Two things are the same, if they share all properties) makes more sense in this context.
I agree that it seems a bit pointless of Maudlin to go such a long way to clarify the arguments, just to show that static shifts are not undistinguishable, and then simply reject PII and PSR. PSR's "weaker but more plausible (methodological) cousin" does not even rely on statical shifts.
Hi everybody! Firstly I'm not sure if any of my replies have been working so if there are several comments of mine that are identical, sorry! I'm just considering how we can say that the static shift is distinguishable. To begin with the indexicals, my thoughts are that point is based around two potential arrangements of matter within two possible universes. Universe A is our own whilst universe B is identical in every way apart from all matter is shifted 50cm to the left (or whatever). Accepting the concept of absolute space the person sat typing this comment in universe B would be in a different 'here' (being a different area of space) as i opposed to the 'here' where I am sat. This is logical as all matter exists in a different position relative to absolute space. For this argument to hold absolute space must be constant across both universal arrangements and therefore an independent entity. Is this because if it were not then the shift would also apply to absolute space and therefore the positions would be identical as no real shift could possibly occur. That being so we cannot really know where we are in absolute space. I don't see how this is any real problem with the substantivalists plan as it doesn't contest any of it's parameters.
ReplyDeleteI find myself very confused by most of Maudlin's arguments but I will highlight one in particular that I don't understand. Referring to someone talking in fifteen billion years time but who lived in a universe in which the big bang had occurred only four minutes ago, Maudlin says: ``the indexicals in his language would guarantee that his utterances would not mean the same thing as mine''. This seems radically question begging---to a relationist, surely, ``his'' utterances \emph{would} refer to the same thing as Maudlin's, at least to the extent that the relationist would accept that the notion of someone living in a universe created four minutes ago being even coherent (something which I do not thing thye would be obliged to accept). From a principle of charity I assume that I have misunderstood Maudlin's arguments, but this is the feeling I get more or less throughout the whole of his section 3.
ReplyDeleteHI all. I too find Maudlin's arguments confusing and questionable. We can discuss that more in class. Here I just want to clarify a few concrete points:
ReplyDelete1. Maudlin does not argue that the two shift arguments are different and therefore cannot be legitimately appealed to. Rather he argues that they are different and in particular have different weaknesses. The static shift, he argues, only violates PSR and not PII, and PSR is not compelling. The kinematic shift, on the other hand, only violates PII and not PSR, and PSR is not compelling. So the weakness is not in the fact that they're different; they just have different weaknesses. Nor does he say that they cannot be legitimately appealed to at all, but rather that they are only as strong as the PSR and PII, respectively, or applicable variants thereof.
2. Maudlin argues that the relationist is wrong to claim that a static temporal shift would be undetectable, not because the observer would no longer be around to detect it, but because it really would be observable. If the universe were only four minutes old, it would be quite discernably different. That is, *we* can easily observe that the universe is *not* only four minutes old.
3. Maudlin writes, “We can (…) formulate meaningful counterfactuals about worlds where everything would be displaced from its actual location, but we can also be assured that they are counterfactuals.” Where does this assurance come from? Well, suppose I say, "The world might have been such that I and my desk and everything else were not here but way over there." This is clearly counterfactual, because I can see that my desk is in fact here and not over there. Furthermore, by the very grammar of 'here' I know I am here and not there. I think Luc is rightly pointing to the fact that, in the counterfactual situation, everything would look just the same to me, and I would discern no difference. Nonetheless, I have the assurance that Maudlin claims: I am definitely here and not there!